<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1345</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/14/99 12:33:51 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 14 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1345<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Travshorts II<BR>
Re: Travshorts II<BR>
Re: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
RE: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
Re: SEC : Unclassified - Re: States in the Imperium<BR>
Ringworld<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
RE: The Republic Question<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
Re: Ringworlds<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
RE: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
RE: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
Torquing ringworlds<BR>
Re: Ringworlds<BR>
RE: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:25:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Travshorts II<BR>
<BR>
"<BR>
> > > Mmm... Elf...  The other white meat....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You leave Mr. Sternberg out of this.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Marc Miller wouldn't approve.<BR>
> <BR>
> Huh?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, bit of an in joke I suppose, just go and look at :<BR>
<BR>
http://www.halcyon.com/elf/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:38:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Travshorts II<BR>
<BR>
> >> Mmm... Elf...  The other white meat....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You leave Mr. Sternberg out of this.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Marc Miller wouldn't approve.<BR>
><BR>
> Probably not, on the other hand, consider an alternate timeline where<BR>
> Pendor exists, but doesn't "decloak" until the time of the Third<BR>
> Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
It would certainly be fun !<BR>
<BR>
One thing I always wanted to know was whether John Varley's "Titan" series<BR>
was influenced by or was an influence on, the Journal Entries, or whether<BR>
they are completely unrelated.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 22:03:35 -0600<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
Subject: Re: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
<BR>
If you want traveller character sheets they are on the web at downport.com.<BR>
I will be posting a new ships' papers form sometime next week. These will be<BR>
drafts only but when you download them please give me any feed back. Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Alex Ingram<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > William "Elfman" writes:<BR>
> > >Hello all,<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >I am new to this list so I will be brief and to the point.<BR>
> > >I am looking for some electron based traveller character sheets<BR>
> > >and ships papers. Anyone have any of these or at least knows<BR>
> > >where to find them? These would be for the First version (Black<BR>
> > >Book Set).<BR>
><BR>
> what format?  I have a character sheet that I created  for traveller in<BR>
> lotus Wordpro.  I think it's still around.  Granted it does not support<BR>
> any single Traveller edition but tries to be more of a generic sheet.  I<BR>
> think I still have it around here.<BR>
><BR>
> -------------------------<BR>
> "How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
><BR>
> shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 20:11:57 -0800<BR>
From: "Elfman" <elfman@pacificnet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
<BR>
Thank you<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Alex Ingram<BR>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 20:04<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: character sheets and ships papers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
If you want traveller character sheets they are on the web at downport.com.<BR>
I will be posting a new ships' papers form sometime next week. These will be<BR>
drafts only but when you download them please give me any feed back. Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Alex Ingram<BR>
<BR>
Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > William "Elfman" writes:<BR>
> > >Hello all,<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >I am new to this list so I will be brief and to the point.<BR>
> > >I am looking for some electron based traveller character sheets<BR>
> > >and ships papers. Anyone have any of these or at least knows<BR>
> > >where to find them? These would be for the First version (Black<BR>
> > >Book Set).<BR>
><BR>
> what format?  I have a character sheet that I created  for traveller in<BR>
> lotus Wordpro.  I think it's still around.  Granted it does not support<BR>
> any single Traveller edition but tries to be more of a generic sheet.  I<BR>
> think I still have it around here.<BR>
><BR>
> -------------------------<BR>
> "How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
><BR>
> shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:45:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: SEC : Unclassified - Re: States in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Sat, 13 Nov 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> texture, skin color, variations in body and facial structure. The growth<BR>
of<BR>
>> racialism and nationalism are linked to the point that it would take<BR>
>> entirely too long to disentangle the two from each other, and it would be<BR>
>> utterly useless.<BR>
><BR>
>!!!! Hey!  Whoah there!  That's my dissertation you're talking about!<BR>
><BR>
>I wonder if I can get SJG to publish it as a GURPS supplement?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
My apologies, I did not mean to insult. I didn't mean that it would be<BR>
generally useless to disentangle them, just that it would be utterly useless<BR>
for the task at hand.<BR>
<BR>
Good luck with your dissertation, though! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:48:32 EST<BR>
From: Clifford N Linehan <cnl.rubicon@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Ringworld<BR>
<BR>
For the people intrested in Ringworlds I found this on the net.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~graphics/ProcTexCourse/rootbear/ringworld/rw0.html<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
cnl.rubicon@juno.com<BR>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -<BR>
Arthur C. Clarke<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ ?tn- ?t4- tg++ ?tt to ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt au st+ ls pi+ ta he+<BR>
kk hi as va dr so zh+ vi da sy<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get the Internet just the way you want it.<BR>
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!<BR>
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 23:35:57 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> >Depends on the pacifist. Some believe that _any_ violence is wrong. Others<BR>
> >believe that you have th right to commit violence on yourself, but not on<BR>
> >anyone else. Like with most believes, pacifism comes in many flavours.<BR>
><BR>
>   Yup, for example, American Victim Disarmament activist Josh Sugarman is <BR>
>a devout religious pacifist who believes that the act of defending one's <BR>
>self is as great a sin as the violence committed by the attacker.<BR>
>   He's practical enough to know that he can't violent criminals from <BR>
>attacking innocent people, so he's doing his best to make sure that their <BR>
>victims will be free of the sin of self-defense...<BR>
<BR>
Pardon my saying so, but this guy sounds like some kind of nut. Not even<BR>
for self-defence? In some circumstances, that's a route to annihilation.<BR>
I'm having some problem wrapping my mind around this kind of headspace...<BR>
<BR>
>ob-trav: Apply this twisted logic to make aliens appear really alien.<BR>
<BR>
Especially those on the receiving end of an invasion. This would make for<BR>
an interesting scenario for a military unit: they're ordered to capture<BR>
a particular planet, and expect heavy opposition... what they get is <BR>
something quite different. It could pose an ethical problem for the PCs --<BR>
the only way to accomplish their mission as stated is by force, but if the<BR>
opposition will not put up a fight, that seems hardly sporting...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 23:39:53 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
>>How was the original vote dealt with by the Commonwealth? It was ignored.<BR>
>>Antony Farrell<BR>
><BR>
>Didn't the same thing happen in Canada around 1946-1947? I think I recall<BR>
>that Newfoundland or Nova Scotia had a referendum on leaving Canada which<BR>
>was ignored.<BR>
<BR>
The only referenda on *leaving* Canada were in Quebec, in 1981 and 1995.<BR>
Both times, the response was "No", though in the second one it was by a<BR>
very slim margin...<BR>
<BR>
Newfoundland joined Canada in 1949 -- before that, it was an quasi-<BR>
independent, self-governing colony of Great Britain (like Canada was <BR>
before 1867). Newfoundland held a referendum in or shortly before 1949,<BR>
with the question being whether or not to *join* Canada. The answer, of<BR>
course, was "Yes".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:10:27 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
>From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
>Subject: RE: The Republic Question<BR>
...<BR>
>Didn't the same thing happen in Canada around 1946-1947? I think I recall<BR>
>that Newfoundland or Nova Scotia had a referendum on leaving Canada which<BR>
>was ignored.<BR>
<BR>
  That would have been Newfoundland entering the confederation.<BR>
<BR>
  One supposes that worlds still join of their own free will without<BR>
even being aware of any Impy efforts to coerce them - which could be<BR>
a pleasant surprise or an unwelcome disruption, depending on the effect<BR>
it has on your departments budget :><BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:34:44 +0000<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
Richard Hough wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I don't think canon addresses the issue, but I've<BR>
> >always assumed that once you've joined the Imperium,<BR>
> >you can't leave -- and once the Imperium decides it<BR>
> >wants you, all you can do is cut the best deal you<BR>
> >can.<BR>
> <BR>
> How about states can join or leave the Imperium by majority vote of<BR>
> citizens of the polity in question? That is, by a majority of the<BR>
> citizens of the separate state to join, and by a majority of the<BR>
> citizens of the *entire Imperium* to leave.<BR>
<BR>
You might want that to be a majority of the nobles, as they run the<BR>
Imperium, but then they are only a proxy for the Emperor. The Emperor<BR>
*is* the Imperium so it would be his decision. So to leave the<BR>
Imperium you would have to pension the Emperor. If you are on the<BR>
frontiers this will take years, and by that time your decision to<BR>
leave may have changed.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:37:46 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworlds<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 17:11:31 -0600<BR>
>From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Ringworld (was  Arts and Culture in and around 3I)<BR>
><BR>
>Speaking of ringworlds...<BR>
><BR>
>As I understand it, ringworlds that circle a star would be unstable<BR>
>and wouldn't last.  Is that right?<BR>
><BR>
You would need some sort of active correction mechanism.  Niven used ramjets<BR>
mounted to the ring.<BR>
<BR>
>How about a ringworld that doesn't circle a star?  Or more<BR>
>accurately, a huge ring space station.<BR>
><BR>
Sounds like Culture orbitals (Iain Banks)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Most people probably don't regard this as canon, but there is a ringworld at<BR>
Northstar (Beyond 2819).  Beyond has other interesting locations as well but<BR>
it doesn't fit too well with canon - I think the existence of this sort of<BR>
technology would have a fairly large impact on Imperial policy.<BR>
<BR>
Also of interest:<BR>
Pleiades II (0818-A00266B-E) which is described as a rosette of 7 planetoids<BR>
The I'Sred*Ni Heptad - where the worlds themselves are arranged in a<BR>
geometric pattern.<BR>
Normal (2719-C8651FF-A) Which is described as a 'GDW preserve'.  A dig at<BR>
GDW??  Note this system is adjacent to the ringworld.<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:33:05 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
At 21:14 -0500 8/11/99, "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 15:37:59 PST<BR>
> >From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> >At 01:42 PM 11/8/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
> >The group designing vehicles for Grond Vehicles have produced the Heavy<BR>
> >Recovery Sled, which can lift diabled Intrepids and fly them back to repair<BR>
> >and salvage points.  An Intrepid weighs 192 tons.<BR>
><BR>
>I did consider slinging the disabled AFV underneath, like many helicopters<BR>
>do today with heavy loads. However, 192 tons is a pretty good amount of<BR>
>dead-weight to tote around. It seems best to me to try and get some kind of<BR>
>CG working on the towed vehicle.<BR>
<BR>
You may want to consider putting in the capacity to deadlift the <BR>
Intrepid in case you can't in get to the CG modules / power the CG <BR>
modules if the AFV comes down in a difficult place (swamp, river <BR>
etc). 192 tonnes is going to sink...<BR>
<BR>
It does beg the question where on the Intrepid are the modules <BR>
installed, and are there more redundancies than an air raft with 4 <BR>
units.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:58:58 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
<BR>
At 23:29 -0500 9/11/99, Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
>That, sir, depends on whether you have read, and agree with, _Starship<BR>
>Troopers_.<BR>
><BR>
>I suspect that the Emperor and his advisors have not attended History<BR>
>and Moral Philosoph classes under LtCol DuBois et al, so I would expect<BR>
>the Imperium to consider a relative handful of PWs as a regrettable<BR>
>circumstance, rather than as a _casus belli_.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, those people who haven't read the book and only seen the <BR>
film will not understand this reference. :-/<BR>
<BR>
On the Film: (The presence of POWs on the Bug home world is the <BR>
reason that the human forces do not glass the planet with nukes in <BR>
the book. This answers the question the film poses in 'why are they <BR>
landing on the Bug's planet when they can obviously control the space <BR>
above it and land nukes on it?'. Sadly, it doesn't answer the film <BR>
questions 'where is the power armour', 'where is the air support', <BR>
'where are the heavy weapons', 'where are the tactics'. Nice CGI, <BR>
shame about the execution.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: I actually think the MI starships look like they should be in <BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:16:00 +0000<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
> Actually this does sound like a number of different sailing races right<BR>
> now. There's a series that was originally sponsored by some beer maker<BR>
> that was essentially a party that moved through the course with the<BR>
> boats racing from bar to bar ;-) All the interesting spectator stuff<BR>
> happens in port, the racing itself is largely beside the point except,<BR>
> perhaps, to the crews.<BR>
<BR>
The Whitbread (spell ?) around the world ?<BR>
<BR>
Now they have on board video cameras, and satalight uplinks so the<BR>
people interested get to see what is happening on the boats. The crews<BR>
never get to see the opposition as they are always miles apart from<BR>
each other.<BR>
<BR>
This is how I had always envisioned space races. There are points in a<BR>
system where the competitors have to pass, say a mile wide area of<BR>
space next to a gas giant moon, to complete the race. The spectators<BR>
watch at these points.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Computer Centre                    Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:48:15 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> My big problem with the various forms of space racing as<BR>
> spectator sports is that there is so little for the 'spectators'<BR>
> to actually see.<BR>
<BR>
That doesn't stop RL  sports  TV  trying  to  show  *golf*  as  a<BR>
'spectator sport'.  Of course someone  once  suggested  that  the<BR>
cameramen at these events were all aging veteran WW2  searchlight<BR>
operators (scanning the sky looking for the ball  in  flight).  I<BR>
suppose the Regina GG races could be broadcast to  spectators  on<BR>
tri-dee by using a combination of ...<BR>
<BR>
- - aging veteran 4FW PD sensor operators  (running  active  sensor<BR>
  sweeps and providing 'graphics'),<BR>
- - following the magnetic sail racers with  thruster-plate  camera<BR>
  platforms,<BR>
- - filling in  with  long  rambling  interviews  with  contestants<BR>
  (recorded mid-race),<BR>
- - and the obligatory documentaries about the  race,  past  races,<BR>
  craft construction,  and  crew  training  ad-nausium  (recorded<BR>
  pre-race).<BR>
<BR>
And don't forget the sponsors'  logos  emblazoned  all  over  the<BR>
giant sails.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:07:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
>>ObTrav. I suspect that the study of history in the 3I will be considerably<BR>
>>different, due to institutions such as the AAB, and the generally high<BR>
>>tech level of the Imperium and it's predecessors, leading to much better<BR>
>>record preservation.<BR>
><BR>
>High technology does not always bring with it better record preservation.<BR>
>One of the problems that people are starting to focus on is the lack of<BR>
>permanence of computer records. I don't mean that they degrade, I mean that<BR>
>they just simply disappear. I would one day like to write a popular history<BR>
>of the BBS world, and I've discovered in doing so that... well... large<BR>
>chunks of that history are just gone. No archeologist is ever going to dig<BR>
>this stuff up. For the most part, roughly twenty years of the history of<BR>
>computer telecommunications happen to be lost. Forever.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed am have most recently been researching that very subject, as I am<BR>
involved in spec'ing out an electronic logbook (an elog) at a National<BR>
Accelerator Facility. In my research I found that there is ***NO*** existent<BR>
copy of the first email message. No one even knows who sent it or what data<BR>
it contained. Based on recent problems Microsoft and other corporations have<BR>
had with email I know that some companies are being counseled ***not*** to<BR>
archive email. After all if you don't archive it the courts can't subpoena<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:06:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... or not)<BR>
<BR>
>- -----Original Message-----<BR>
>From: webmaster@sjgames.com <webmaster@sjgames.com><BR>
>To: traveller@pyramid.sjgames.com <traveller@pyramid.sjgames.com><BR>
>Date: 08 November 1999 14:25<BR>
>Subject: Traveller News Service<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Capital/Core<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>>Capital/Core                  365-1116<BR>
>>Former Imperial Army Intelligence officer Colonel Ruys de Bessier alleged<BR>
>>today that the Zhodani Consulate continues to hold POW's captured during<BR>
the<BR>
>>Fourth and Fifth Frontier Wars. Colonel de Bessier recently<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^<BR>
>Crikey! Thats over 30 years!<BR>
<BR>
Anyone want to bet what kind of mental shape a non-psionic Imperial would be<BR>
after thirty years manipulation by the Tavrchedl'? No doubt they're all good<BR>
little Proles who wouldn't go back to that nest of liars and thieves, the<BR>
3I. If asked by Imperial representatives (or reporters) I'm sure that they<BR>
would all claim to be happy emigrants grateful for the chance to have moved<BR>
to a more enlightened confederation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:02:30 -0500<BR>
From: Doug Sinclair <dns@interlog.com><BR>
Subject: Torquing ringworlds<BR>
<BR>
> Let's say we have a huge ring station (or mini-ringworld) that is<BR>
> 500,000 km in diameter and 20,000 km high rotating perpendicular to<BR>
> it's orbit around a star.  The inner and outer rims of the tube<BR>
> making up the interior of the ring are 100 km apart.  Inside this<BR>
> tube you would have room for mountains, seas, and continents.<BR>
> Several worlds worth as (3.1x10^10 km) is close to 60 earths.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "perpendicular", but this could be a<BR>
problem.  I /think/ you mean that the spin axis of the ringworld should<BR>
pass through the star.  This would be consistant with the lighting<BR>
technique that you discuss later.<BR>
<BR>
This will be a problem as the ringworld moves in its orbit around the<BR>
star.  Left to its own devices, the ringworld spin axis will be fixed in<BR>
inertial space (* see note at end).  If at one moment in time it points<BR>
through the star, then 90 degrees later in the orbit the ringworld will<BR>
be edge on to the star.<BR>
<BR>
To allow the ringworld spin axis to track the star in its orbit would<BR>
require huge flows of angular momentum.  We play similar tricks with<BR>
low-earth orbit satellites in sun-synchronous orbits, using the Earth's<BR>
J2 gravity gradient harmonic.  As stated here, the only bodies are the<BR>
ringworld and the star.  I can't see right now how to take angular<BR>
momentum from the star, but I may just be being dense.  Certainly, one<BR>
could have a ringworld that encircled a planet that continually tracked<BR>
the star.  It wouldn't be stable, but the control forces required would<BR>
be small.<BR>
<BR>
If we are postulating technologies that can build ringworlds, we can<BR>
also look at what might be required to have a ringworld track the star<BR>
in such a way.  Thrusters (mass-expelling or magical Traveller versions)<BR>
would be one obvious way.  Assuming the ringworld is rotating<BR>
counter-clockwise as viewed from the star, and the orbit progresses<BR>
counter-clockwise as seen from some arbitrary "above", you would need a<BR>
thruster at the "top" of the ringworld pushing in towards the star and<BR>
another at the "bottom" pushing out.  The top and bottom change as the<BR>
ringworld rotates, of course.  Thus, you would need an array of<BR>
thrusters around the rim.  At any given time, two would be firing.  That<BR>
could make for a nice visual effect.<BR>
<BR>
Another approach would be to store a large quantity of angular momentum<BR>
somewhere on the ringworld.  By selectively absorbing and releasing<BR>
momentum on different axes as the orbit progresses, the spin axis of the<BR>
ringworld could be forced to track the star.  Storing ringworld sized<BR>
angular momentum in small objects (ie smaller than a ringworld) would<BR>
require very rapidly spinning flywheels with some sort of motor to speed<BR>
them up or slow them down, and possibly to change their spin axis. <BR>
Modern spacecraft use reaction wheels, momentum wheels, and control<BR>
moment gyros to serve the same function.<BR>
<BR>
The angular momentum storage need not be all in one place.  Perhapse<BR>
some sort of a "slaver sunflower" type plant with a gyro in the trunk<BR>
that is found all over the ring?  _The Raft_ (author momentarily<BR>
forgotten) has some cute trees with significant angular momentum<BR>
storage.  Adventure seed: an offworld plague/parisite is destroying the<BR>
trees.  Can the brave PCs stop it before the nutations destroy the<BR>
ringworld?<BR>
<BR>
If you do want to put a ringworld in orbit around a star, the simplest<BR>
way would be to spin it so that it is always seen edge on to the star. <BR>
Perhaps that is what you suggested in the first place and this is all a<BR>
bit misunderstanding.  The problem then is getting light in.  You can<BR>
make the outside wall transparent, so that the starlight shines in.  As<BR>
the ring spins, different areas see light so you have a sort of<BR>
day/night cycle.  Unfortunately, if you're using the spin for artificial<BR>
gravity then the light comes up from the floor!  You can't lay down soil<BR>
for plants to grow in or it gets dark again.<BR>
<BR>
* Obscure note on spacecraft dynamics:<BR>
Okay, so the spin axis would not remain fixed in inertial space for all<BR>
time.  Gravity gradient torques over the course of the orbit would<BR>
induce nutation.  Oceans on the ringworld would absorb the nutation<BR>
energy.  Eventually the ringworld spin axis would have rotated 90<BR>
degrees to the later case that I described, with the spin axis parallel<BR>
to the orbit axis.  This situation is described as a Thomson<BR>
Equilibrium, as described in:<BR>
Thomson, W. T.: "Spin Stabilization of Attitude Against Gravity Torque,"<BR>
J. Astronaut. Sci., 9, 31-3 (1962).<BR>
I have not actually read that article -- I took the reference from<BR>
_Spacecraft Attitude Dynamics_ by P. C. Hughes (1986) which is a good<BR>
introduction to the subject.<BR>
<BR>
Doug<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:28:48 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Ringworlds<BR>
<BR>
Mark S Peace wrote:<BR>
> You would need some sort of active correction mechanism.  Niven used<BR>
> ramjets mounted to the ring.<BR>
<BR>
How does the ring detect that it's sliding out of position?<BR>
<BR>
The way that springs to mind is sensors at regular intervals, and some<BR>
sort of computer comparing sunlight intensity registered at the<BR>
different sensors.<BR>
<BR>
> Normal (2719-C8651FF-A) Which is described as a 'GDW preserve'.  A dig<BR>
> at GDW??  Note this system is adjacent to the ringworld.<BR>
<BR>
While many of us think that GDW is extinct, part of the large hive-like<BR>
organism survives on this backwater world, far from the eyes of AAB. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:28:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>The Roc writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>I can see a heavy-lift Grav-Recovery vehicle (similar to a large<BR>
>>tilt-tray) land in front of a disabled grav-tank, the recovery<BR>
>>crew lifting it on hydraulic lifts, fitting wheeled jigs front<BR>
>>and back (or the tray itself may have rollers?), then winching it<BR>
>>on board.  Once secured, the recovery crew mount the recovery<BR>
>>vehicle and diddly bop off to rear area facilities to repair the<BR>
>>disabled vehicle?<BR>
<BR>
>I could see this at about TL 8, but at slightly higher tech<BR>
>I would expect the recovery vehicle to just pick up the<BR>
>damaged AFV with cables or grappling gear of some sort.  At<BR>
>very high tech, gravetics would be used to lift the vehicle.<BR>
<BR>
What's the state of gravetic technology in Traveller? I've heard mention<BR>
that ship lasers use gravic lenses to give them their massive range. I seem<BR>
to recall one of the versions using repulser technology for point defense.<BR>
Having already seen grav belts and grav vehicles used in the game, the<BR>
thought that hydraulics and winches would be used at GTL10/12 strikes me as<BR>
very unlikely. I could buy high gravity filed technology (as used in ship<BR>
laser weapons) being a very short range application. This would explain the<BR>
6G limit on inertial compensators, and prevent the ST "tractor beam" for use<BR>
from ship to ship. It should allow things like "attactor pads" to clamp<BR>
non-magnetic objects together. Dozens of applications here, including<BR>
"non-magnetic" space boots for use in zero g, and contragrav lifting units<BR>
that can gravically clamp onto the heavy object to be lifted. Canon busting<BR>
tech or within parameters?<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:35:38 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> suppose the Regina GG races could be broadcast to  spectators  on<BR>
> tri-dee by using a combination of ...<BR>
> <BR>
> - aging veteran 4FW PD sensor operators  (running  active  sensor<BR>
>   sweeps and providing 'graphics'),<BR>
> - following the magnetic sail racers with  thruster-plate  camera<BR>
>   platforms,<BR>
> - filling in  with  long  rambling  interviews  with  contestants<BR>
>   (recorded mid-race),<BR>
> - and the obligatory documentaries about the  race,  past  races,<BR>
>   craft construction,  and  crew  training  ad-nausium  (recorded<BR>
>   pre-race).<BR>
<BR>
- - Computer graphics showing the position of the individual crafts around<BR>
the gas giant (or whatever) in order to get a good summary of the race.<BR>
- - Charts showing distance changes between crafts the last hour or<BR>
whatever.<BR>
- - Perhaps engine output data from the various crafts ("... and number<BR>
five appeared to have some kind of engine trouble, but they've patched<BR>
the thing back together by now...")<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1345<BR>
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